From morbius@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu Sun May 14 23:26:04 EDT 1995
Article: 177661 of alt.atheism
Path: newsfeed.pitt.edu!minerva!morbius
From: morbius@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu (Edouard Morbius)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: A conversation between an atheist and a Christian
Date: 15 May 1995 02:10:40 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics & Astronomy, University of Pittsburgh

In article <3p0tlt$dki@urvile.MSUS.EDU> dheld@eeyore.stcloud.msus.edu (Lawnmower Man) writes:
>       Read it again.  I said: "Nothing can pop into existence from nothing-
>ness alone or uncaused."                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>That means, if something has an *origin in time*, then it cannot be uncaused.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>If it *does not have an origin in time*, then it *cannot be caused*.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

While this statement is generally false, as I already mentioned in my
reply to your post on virtual electron-positron pairs, if it is true with
regard to the origin of the universe then it completely obliterates your
argument that the universe *must* have a cause. Time is a part of the
universe, so the universe cannot have an "origin in time", which
presupposes that time exists *apart from* the universe and that the
universe was created at some point *in* this time. So therefore, since the
universe "*does not have an origin in time*, then it cannot be caused." 


Edouard Morbius